A recent thread here about Krips in San Francisco reminded me of one of those "Reiner stories" that veteran CSO musicians and (perhaps) the rest of us relish.
I was told this by a CSO veteran.
Reiner was rehearsing Brahms' Academic Festival Overture. He stopped, looked at the first violinists, and said in his usually sour vein
"Vere dit you get dose bowingss?"
The concertmaster (don't know who) responded "Doctor, this is what we have in our parts after the last time we played this, with Mister Krips."
Reiner made a sour face and said "Krips? Dey gif me de CREEPS!"
> A recent thread here about Krips in San Francisco reminded me of one > of those "Reiner stories" that veteran CSO musicians and (perhaps) the > rest of us relish.
> I was told this by a CSO veteran.
> Reiner was rehearsing Brahms' Academic Festival Overture. He > stopped, looked at the first violinists, and said in his usually sour > vein
> "Vere dit you get dose bowingss?"
> The concertmaster (don't know who) responded "Doctor, this is what > we have in our parts after the last time we played this, with Mister > Krips."
> Reiner made a sour face and said "Krips? Dey gif me de CREEPS!"
> Don Tait
Thankss, Don. This and a few other stories indicate that Reiner had a sense of humor, however fleeting.
There is a story involving Josef Krips some might be interested in. Most conductors are rather imperious types, but some, like Krips, have fostered the careers of the musicians who work under them.
While music director in Buffalo in the early 60s, Krips hired a young tuba player named Ron Bishop. Krips must have thought highly of Bishop, because the tubist joined the San Francisco Symphony after Krips relocated there. At some point in their association, Krips urged Bishop to study with Arnold Jacobs, a musician he had come to know well during guest conducting engagements in Chicago.
"Mein Gott!", Krips is reported to have said, "that Mr. Jacobs - he plays the tuba as if it was a violin!".
Well, Bishop did indeed seek out Jacobs and became a student, close friend and colleague. Ron Bishop was appointed tubist of the Cleveland Orchestra in 1967 and retired not too many years ago.
On Nov 20, 6:43 pm, notesetter <noteset...@yahoo.com> wrote:> Thankss, Don. This and a few other stories indicate that Reiner had a
> sense of humor, however fleeting.>>
oh, Reiner had a sense of humor, allright - but it was almost always at the expense of some unfortunate musican...Reiner, of course, found his own humor intensely amusing..
Heck51 wrote: > On Nov 20, 6:43 pm, notesetter <noteset...@yahoo.com> wrote:> Thankss, > Don. This and a few other stories indicate that Reiner had a >> sense of humor, however fleeting.>>
> oh, Reiner had a sense of humor, allright - but it was almost always > at the expense of some unfortunate musican...Reiner, of course, found > his own humor intensely amusing..
And what if a player deliberately went out of his way NOT to laugh? Did Reiner extract some form of vengeance?
On Nov 21, 1:15 am, Dawg <rayto...@bigpond.com> wrote:> And what if a player deliberately went out of his way NOT to laugh? Did Reiner extract some form of vengeance?>.
He probably didn't care since his humor had cut the poor guy up already. Reiner of course, found his own humor most amusing...
his banter with Ray Still - "mit de Orioles" remark regarding Still's past orchestral affiliation being a classic example...
I've read that Reiner held long-time grudges against musicians, and he rarely missed an opportunity to remind his unfortunate victim of a playing gaffe committed years earlier. -- Curtis Croulet Temecula, California 33°27'59"N, 117°05'53"W
On Nov 21, 12:21 pm, "Curtis Croulet" <calypte@_NO_SPAM_verizon.net> wrote:
> I've read that Reiner held long-time grudges against musicians, and he > rarely missed an opportunity to remind his unfortunate victim of a playing > gaffe committed years earlier...>>
I've not heard that e harbored them for years - but he certainly held them during a concert... He would always catch the eye of the offending musician, with a disparaging look just to let them know that he knew they screwed up. OTOH - he was quite generous overall to his princpal players, and allowed them considerable expressive freedom during solos - much more so than someone like "Szell - who wa s areal micro-manager tyrant...
On Nov 20, 7:02 pm, Rugby <steveha...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Nov 20, 2:53 pm, Dontaitchic...@aol.com wrote:
> Great story,Don.
> Know any about the Reiner,Gilels interactions from the 1958 > season,recordings, and onward ?
> Thanks !
I'd have to check. I seem to recall reading that the 1958 Brahms Second Concerto with Gilels was put together from a lot of short takes, something Reiner hated, because Gilels wasn't very familiar with the work. But that seems hard to believe, so don't quote me! I'll try to find the source of whatever it was that I read and write something.
One strange thing about Gilels and the CSO: his 1958 appearances (when the Brahms was recorded) were his CSO concert debut. In 1955, when he and Reiner recorded the Tchaikovsky First, Gilels didn't play at a CSO concert.
More to come if I can find the references I know I've read to the 1958 Gilels appearances.
On Nov 21, 12:15 am, Dawg <rayto...@bigpond.com> wrote:
> Heck51 wrote: > > On Nov 20, 6:43 pm, notesetter <noteset...@yahoo.com> wrote:> Thankss, > > Don. This and a few other stories indicate that Reiner had a > >> sense of humor, however fleeting.>>
> > oh, Reiner had a sense of humor, allright - but it was almost always > > at the expense of some unfortunate musican...Reiner, of course, found > > his own humor intensely amusing..
> And what if a player deliberately went out of his way NOT to laugh? Did > Reiner extract some form of vengeance?
> Ray (Dawg) Hall, Taree
According to some who played for Reiner, once he had confidence in a musician -- that he or she couldn't be "thrown" -- he pretty much left them alone. Also, if he had that confidence in, plus respect for, them they could even subtly talk back to him. Bud Herseth has talked about a rehearsal for Strauss's Also Sprach Zarathustra. There is the famous passage in which the principal trumpeter plays four notes, a sort of fanfare, several times with the last note higher than the first three. It's a treacherous brief series. Bud said that at that rehearsal, Reiner kept repeating the passage. Bud said he realized what was going on: the orchestra was playing it excellently; Reiner was testing Bud by making him repeat the passage. Finally Reiner said pointedly, "I hope you are not getting tired." With which Bud said loudly "it's all right -- I've got till noon!" He said Reiner got it. He smiled, ignored the subtle impertinence, and moved on.
On Nov 21, 12:21 pm, Heck51 <dgallagh...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On Nov 21, 12:21 pm, "Curtis Croulet" <calypte@_NO_SPAM_verizon.net> > wrote:
> > I've read that Reiner held long-time grudges against musicians, and he > > rarely missed an opportunity to remind his unfortunate victim of a playing > > gaffe committed years earlier...>>
> I've not heard that e harbored them for years - but he certainly held > them during a concert... > He would always catch the eye of the offending musician, with a > disparaging look just to let them know that he knew they screwed up. > OTOH - he was quite generous overall to his princpal players, and > allowed them considerable expressive freedom during solos - much more > so than someone like "Szell - who wa s areal micro-manager tyrant...
That tendency to try to micro-manage principal players' phrasing was one of the factors in the souring of the CSO's relationship with Jean Martinon. Unlike Reiner, who had allowed them considerable expressive freedom during solos (as you wrote) and thereby implicitly expressed confidence in them, Martinon went the other way. It caused some hard feelings.
